Smack: Undecided voters in Junior, Busch debate

1. Now that the season is almost over, it's time to assess: did Rick Hendrick make the right move by releasing Kyle Busch to add Dale Earnhardt Jr.?

Dave Rodman: I'm not dodging the question, but it's still a case where time will ultimately tell. Look at it this way: Three Hendrick teams made the Chase, and so did three at Joe Gibbs Racing, where Busch competes now. So I think it's been beneficial all the way around.

David Caraviello: I don't know who the joker is who came up with this question, but it's unanswerable. The Earnhardt-Busch situation was not a zero-sum game. You're talking about two guys who both needed new surroundings. And two guys who both clearly benefited from the change.

Joe Menzer: Well, Roadman is obviously avoiding the question. But the fact of the matter is that this is just like one of those NFL or major league baseball free-agency deals. You need a full three years to make the correct judgment. If you are asking how it looks right now, at this very moment, judging off just this first year, then the answer is obvious and you would have to say no.

David Caraviello: Three years? Dude, you're not covering the NFL anymore. Three years in this deal is a lifetime. This is a results-now business. And if you look at where they are versus where they were, both are much better off.

Dave Rodman: It will take even longer than three years, I believe. Who's gonna end up with the most championships? And that is totally open-ended. At Daytona in July you might've said Kyle would -- but with the way he's tanked in the last third of the season, we're gonna need another whole year to see what they really have.

Joe Menzer: Well, if you're gonna judge it that way ... then how can anyone possibly say you're better off to have a guy who has one win versus a guy who has eight in Cup?

David Caraviello: Because I don't think Kyle would have won eight races in that environment. It's all about fit, and for whatever reason, he didn't fit at Hendrick. There's something about Gibbs that's brought out his best. It's the same thing with Earnhardt. It was going to be very difficult for him to make the Chase and contend for titles at DEI. He needed a place where the equipment was more reliable and his talent could show. He found it at Hendrick.

Joe Menzer: There is indeed some truth to the fact that getting pushed out at Hendrick forced Kyle to mature, or lit a fire under him, or whatever. It put him in position with the right guy in crew chief Steve Addington.

Dave Rodman: Again, there are a lot of parameters you have to judge it by. Hendrick's Chase teams are gonna handle JGR's, and who finishes better between Junior and Shrub still remains to be seen. David, your point on timeframes is well-made, but I think the assessment here is longer-term.

Joe Menzer: But the question was if Rick Hendrick made the right move. And if I recall, even Hendrick said late last year that if Kyle had driven and acted like he did the latter part of that year, he never would have parted ways with him.

Dave Rodman: All things considered -- especially considering Casey Mears might win a couple of races next season -- I wonder if Rick ever wishes he had both Junior and Shrub right now. Wouldn't that raise some outcry amongst all the other fans that are still left in the sport. Though the point that can't be lost is that Steve Addington and that 18 crew are a big part of why that team won so much, just as much as they're at the root of the current slump.

David Caraviello: Given how things have turned out with Casey, there's reason to believe Rick might be second-guessing himself on cutting Kyle loose. But if Kyle isn't the odd man out at Hendrick, then does he become that more mature driver who wins eight races at Gibbs? In some ways, you could say he's a product of the environment.

Joe Menzer: Now that's an interesting point. But I think Mr. H is pretty happy to put Mark Martin in that car for at least next year. And, by the way, Dave, what makes you think Casey Mears will win anything next year? Not sure I see that.

Dave Rodman: He's teaming up with Gil Martin and a two-time Chase team.

Joe Menzer: So you're saying Mears' inability to win (more than once, anyway) in good equipment at Hendrick was his crew chief's fault -- more than his own?

Dave Rodman: If they mesh well, I can see him doing quite well. But of course, with Mark Martin already in the 2009 Chase, that doesn't leave many spots. I already can't wait.

David Caraviello: Well, Casey has been sort of jobbed throughout his career -- the whole five teams in five years thing. A little stability might do him good.

Dave Rodman: How did Kyle Busch win so little at Hendrick, comparatively speaking? We all know these teams and their success rates are the result of infinitely, exquisitely agonizing bouts of chemical balance. Did that make sense? Got off on the language there.

Joe Menzer: The younger, supposedly much less mature Kyle Busch still managed four Cup victories in the same car at Hendrick with Alan Gustafson as his crew chief. And you could argue that Gustafson's job was tougher under those circumstances.

David Caraviello: Hey, the comparison here isn't Kyle against Casey -- that's a no-brainer. As for Earnhardt and Busch, both guys seem much happier and much more able to live up to potential. Nobody loses.

2. Petty Enterprises is holding preliminary talks about some sort of merger or alliance with DEI. Would Petty still be Petty, even if operating under another name?

Joe Menzer: Well, let's be clear about this: Robbie Loomis and others at Petty have made a point of saying while they've talked, nothing is imminent -- and one source said he can't see anything happening there.

David Caraviello: Man, tough questions today. My gut feeling would be no. Petty is about so much more than the racecars. It's about what they refer to as the Petty "brand," all that history, outside activities like the driving experience and the camp, and the silhouette of the King. How can you keep all that if you merge with another organization?

Dave Rodman: If you recall the previous partnership deal, it's obvious the Petty brand is the key to everything. So no offense to DEI, but I wouldn't think any merger with anyone would radically change that.


Thinking about it
Petty Enterprises has beeen a staple in NASCAR from the beginning, but in these tough economic times the team is finding it hard to compete. For that reason, Petty Enterprises is talking with other teams, including DEI, looking to possibly merge.

Complete story, click here
Joe Menzer: But if it's not DEI, it's probably going to be someone else they form an alliance with. Boston Ventures didn't buy a majority interest in Petty with the idea that Petty would remain overmatched forever in the garage, and the only way they're not going to be overmatched is if they team up with another team sort of in the same boat as them.

David Caraviello: But the Petty folks have always been very conscious -- and rightly so -- of the fact that the name is the meal ticket. They haven't ever done anything to undercut that. This is the only team in the garage that can run less than competitively and get away with it, because of the Petty name. You sacrifice that, the results don't follow -- and then what do you have?

Joe Menzer: Earnhardt is a pretty big name in the business, too, folks!

David Caraviello: It is, Joe, but the Earnhardt name is all about performance. This is a team that's used to winning recently, and thinks they can get back there fairly soon. Petty's one big piece of leverage is the last name.

Dave Rodman: The danger here is taking too narrow a view of any merger or alliance. There's no reason anything like that would involve name changes. Depends how much egos come into it. Over the weekend, Richard said they were talking to a lot of people -- as everyone is. But he also said they were fairly comfortable with their situation.

Joe Menzer: Even they can't get away with running in the back forever. You're already seeing that now with them obviously having more problems getting sponsors than anyone thought they would have.

David Caraviello: The new Boston Ventures folks in charge seem to have a keen understanding of the fact that Petty isn't just a race team, it's a brand name. I think that's why they bought in.

Joe Menzer: I'll be blunt about this: I don't think the higher-ups at NASCAR will ever let the entity known as Petty Enterprises ever go completely away. Nor should they.

David Caraviello: Well, these are privately-run businesses. Kyle's gonna get out of the car for good sometime in the near future, and when Petty doesn't have a Petty behind the wheel anymore, that will be the real test.

Dave Rodman: Yikes. Without going into any great detail, and as painful as the thought is, I don't think NASCAR would think that deeply about it. Business, unfortunately would be business -- as it most always has been.

Joe Menzer: Now you are testing my patience, Roadman. Are you saying NASCAR has never propped up big-name teams before? Seems to me they helped Junior Johnson out a little once back in the day.

Dave Rodman: That was a previous time and different people -- with different goals and value sets, unfortunately.

David Caraviello: Here's my question: could two teams merge and still keep their individual names? Could Petty and Earnhardt merge, build cars out of both shops, call one Petty and one Earnhardt, and leave it at that? Because surely, DEI has a name and a legacy it would want to protect as well.

Joe Menzer: I don't think it will be an issue -- because I don't think it's going to happen. I think Petty will end up merging -- or forming an alliance, or whatever you want to call it -- with another Dodge organization.

Dave Rodman: That's what I said before, DC -- if egos would allow it, they certainly could. Richard was asked the question last weekend and didn't much want to comment about names or bargaining positions, but he did infer that DEI was in the weaker position of the two organizations.

David Caraviello: But Joe, aren't they still in the same boat, regardless of who they merge with? Protecting the name that means so much to them? That's why they haven't merged with anyone to this point, to be honest.

Joe Menzer: You said it yourself. Because of the name, they are so much more than just a race team. They're an entity -- one that includes the Petty Driving Experience, etc. -- but they'll have to do something on the merger front to ever get competitive on the track again. But I guess to answer the question, yes, there will always be a Petty Enterprises involved in NASCAR in my opinion. In some form and on some level.

David Caraviello: Well, they have proven the past few years they're not above changing -- moving from Level Cross and all that. Maybe this is another break with tradition they're willing to make to be competitive again.

3. It's the last fall Chase race for Atlanta, which moves into the Labor Day spot next season. Is it a good move for a track with attendance issues?

Joe Menzer: I think so. They had to do something, and this might help. But if it doesn't, look out. If it fails, they could be looking at losing one of their races in another two to three years.

David Caraviello: It surely can't hurt. Atlanta has been besieged by cold and rainy weather during its long tenure near the back end of the schedule. Any move to warmer months will certainly help.


Changing lanes
Atlanta Motor Speedway and NASCAR are hoping rain and attendance aren't an issue when the track's fall race moves to Labor Day beginning in 2009.

Complete story, click here
Caraviello: Tough one to sell
Complete 2009 Cup schedule
Joe Menzer: The other side of the equation is California. Having a race out there on Labor Day was a bad idea from the start, and maybe this will help them as well. At least you won't be able to fry an egg on Roadman's forehead.

Dave Rodman: It's potentially gonna be cold and possibly rainy on at least one day in Atlanta. Incomprehensibly, that track seems to have issues drawing a near-to-full house, so it's got to be good to try something.

Joe Menzer: I don't know how incomprehensible it is. Atlanta, to me, traditionally has never been the strongest of sports towns for the professional market.

Dave Rodman: Well, good point. But it's great racing and great racing draws 'em in from miles around.

Joe Menzer: And we might also mention here that calling it "Atlanta Motor Speedway" sort of would be the same as calling Martinsville "Greensboro Motor Speedway." They're about the same distance from those respective cities.

David Caraviello: Well Mr. NFL man, as for your geographic stickiness, don't the Detroit Lions play in Pontiac? The Washington Redskins in Landover? The Dallas Cowboys in Irving? Night qualifying at Atlanta has always been pretty neat, so a full Cup race under the lights there should be spectacular. There's won't be much of a conflict with football, and the weather will be warmer. So it's as good a shot, on the surface, as the place has had.

Dave Rodman: This brings up an old, sore point with me. The schedule should not be set in stone. Tracks should have a black-and-white set of parameters to meet: Attendance, ingress/egress, facilities, purse. If they can't make it this year, they lose a race in the near future. Give someone else a shot who can meet the same parameters. Atlanta would already be facing a hiatus, and so would California. Kentucky and Nashville would have had a shot, by now. And even though I'm told Iowa might not be the best track for a Cup race, they might even have had an opportunity.

Joe Menzer: As hard as it is for me -- and Smack observers -- to believe, I think Roadman has hit on a very good point here and I agree with him. The problem is the track operators like it being set in stone, arguing that it helps 'em sell tickets.

Dave Rodman: Well, stone will be more like lava next season. I think their ticket-selling dramas are only beginning.

Joe Menzer: I would argue, on the other hand, that you could keep certain dates that are proven successful over the long haul set in stone, if you like. But move the others around.

David Caraviello: I think F1 has a set of track criteria that facilities must meet. And then that sanctioning body ignores it in the case of creaky old Monaco. These race organizations run the show, and can do what they want.

Fast facts
What Pep Boys Auto 500
When 2:20 p.m. ET Sunday
TV ABC, 1 p.m. ET
Radio PRN (Sirius Ch. 128), 1:15 ET

• Track Page | Tickets | TravelJoe Menzer: Hate to keep comparing this sport to others, but why not? It's not like you see the NFL schedule completely set in stone each year. They play division rivals, then rotate other dates and teams in and out.

Dave Rodman: Oh yeah, Joe. Daytona, Lowe's, Bristol, Richmond -- and even New Hampshire because even with a short legacy, they've filled the place up and improved it, consistently. They would all be locks, as is. But these others...

David Caraviello: Right, guys, but the schedule does come out only about six months ahead of time. All this is on a year-to-year basis. They're not saying Atlanta will have the Labor Day date for 20 years.

Joe Menzer: Carl Edwards said it best the other day, but it won't ever happen. He said he thought it would be neat if they could race on 36 different tracks throughout the season. Go to Kentucky, Montreal, some places Cup has never been.

Dave Rodman: Which is why I said "they'd lose a date in the near future..." Screw up fall 2008, you're back to one date in 2010, which gives you plenty of time to work on fixes.

David Caraviello: A buddy and I sat in a bar one night and came up with a 25-race schedule. Two races for many of the places Dave mentioned, everybody else gets one. You're out before football season heats up and everything else gets lost.

Dave Rodman: Along with meeting parameters, certain tracks should rotate having two dates in a season. That, too, would give other facilities a chance. Any track that wants a date and can meet the criteria should have a chance. The fans, and I bet, the teams would love it.

David Caraviello: Boy, guys, all that would make selling tickets very hard.

Joe Menzer: Of course you would always need to have two races at certain places, like Daytona and Talladega ... and Vegas, baby! We need two at Vegas!

David Caraviello: Joe, the people in Vegas would be glad to see you again, too. Nobody can part ways with $100 faster.

Joe Menzer: Or $150.